Are you in support of the clamour for the presidency from the South-East in 2023?
We from the South-East, Igbo people in general, had played a major part in the independence of Nigeria. Our leader, Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe was no doubt the most significant leader of nationalism in Nigeria. Our leader Nnamdi Azikiwe made so many sacrifices. He was asked to be the Prime Minister of Nigeria, that is the Chief Executive of Nigeria, (Obafemi) Awolowo offered it to him and he refused. It was offered again, but because he was thinking of Africa he declined. He was not called Zik of Africa for nothing, he was committed to the Africa course, just like I am committed to the black race. So, he was prepared to make any personal sacrifice to achieve the greatness of Africa. Now, when you talk about Nigeria, which people make Nigeria look like a country or a nation? The truth is that anywhere you go in Nigeria, if you take away the indigenes, the next major population will be the Igbo. Anywhere you go in Nigeria, more than fifty per cent, (very conservative), of all the modern buildings, belong to the same people. Anywhere you go in Nigeria, any significant development, whether it is economic or whatever, is made by the same people. Now, we are called a third of the tripod, which, Nigeria stands – Hausa, Yoruba, and Igbo. We are talking about the presidency, the North has dominated the presidency for decades. The Yoruba has also got a fair share. They have had eight solid years as Nigeria’s president, three years as Nigerian Head of State, and another eight solid years as vice president.
A third of the tripod, the Igbo, what have they got? Six months after a failed coup, which put (Aguyi) Ironsi at the head of the Army. He became Head of State, and he was killed like a rat, tied up, tied to a moving car, and dragged on the road to die. Then, there was a conspiracy in the Army in 1966. A conspiracy to make Awo Prime Minister of Nigeria, because everybody saw Awo as a better leader. The first television in black Africa, the first free education for all, and the West was developing. Some people in the Army said, let us put Awo in charge of Nigerian development and let us see explosive development of this country. They made a coup but the coup was translated and called the Igbo coup. Even after the long list of all the people that were involved was released. Yes, we have a problem, the Igbo people, have a bad mouth. I don’t care that some people don’t like what I say. Some of them think that I am too critical. A group of people, the Igbos, who God gave a destiny of success have failed to manage their successes. And the greatest source of failure is the mouth, bad mouth. “Eze-ego”, king of money, “Esi begi eje be onye,” from whose house do they get to your house. Who are you? Do you feed me and my family? I was with one Tiv man, who lived in my house for three months. One evening, I called him and said, why do Nigerians seem to loathe the Igbos? He said, my brother, I am going to tell you the truth.
I told him that I want to listen to only the truth. Then he said, an Igbo man will come to a very strange village or town, without a lot of money. He will start with a small business, and work hard on it very much. It will not take long before he builds something like a palace in the same village. Will you blame him for that? He said no, but I should listen. I listened, he said, the same Igbo man will sit in front of his palace, with his friends, and talk without control. He will point at you and say, look at that Tiv man. I saw him the day I came to this town, and since then, he had not built a chicken house, even a chicken house he cannot build. And the man turn to me and asked if you are that Tiv man, will you be happy? I said no. I don’t like to be talked down on, and I will not talk down on anybody. So, we did not make any coup, Nigerian soldiers in their conspiracy with Nzeogwu as a very prominent person, made a coup. They now got annoyed and committed pogrom killed so many of our people.
So, much so, that we feel that we don’t belong to the country anymore. Even, as we were trying to run away they continue to ambush and kill us. We wanted to go away. If you don’t want us in Nigeria, let us go home. That is how Biafra emerged. But we could not make it, the British, the Russians, and even the Americans, somehow as God may have it joined in fighting Biafra and we were defeated. How many years did the war end? Since 1970. The road from Enugu to Port Harcourt has not been rebuilt. The road from Enugu to Onitsha has not been built, not much has changed, and they said that we fought the country, why did we fight? After fighting we came together to settle and there was a perfect agreement on how to live in Nigeria. Until we set up that perfect agreement, we are not going to be comfortable in Nigeria. I am not talking of Igbo now, the entire country. We are talking about Biafra, we are talking about Oduduwa, we are talking about Middle-Belt, we are talking about Kaduna seceding, we are talking about Ijaw seceding, we are talking about people not being happy with Nigeria as it is configured now. This is the country before the war, which the World Bank said, part of Nigeria was growing faster than the rest of the world. Now, I had given you the background, but I will now tell you, why we want to produce the next President of Nigeria.
We talk about equity, justice, and fairness, yes, we talk about a third of the tripod. All those can be forgotten, the most important reason why we want to play a part in the leadership of Nigeria for eight years is to make God’s will for Nigeria come through. What is God’s will for Nigeria? You look at the country, the climate is fantastic, plants and animals are in surplus, mineral resources are superabundant, and human resources – many talents from many tribes. What could have been the intention of God to create this kind of country? Other than to make all the blacks prestigious, respectable, and dignified, that is what I think is God’s assignment to Nigeria. Our manifest destiny, but look at what is happening. From parts of Nigeria growing faster than the rest of the world, we became the poverty capital of the world. We have people, many, who can change it and raise the dignity and respect of all black men on earth. American blacks, after suffering racial prejudice, started to say, black lives matter. Was it necessary to say that? God did not create us inferior, and people are beginning to know now. Go to the frontiers of technology in the rest of the world, you find the blacks on top. Creating new things, creating new technologies, and new systems.
This is what we are supposed to do. So, we from the Igbo stock want to lead Nigeria to lead the world. Look at what is going on in the world. In Ukraine, people are being pounded by Russia, look around, the whole place, Syria, Afghan, and others. The United Nations is not doing well, but if a black man gets involved in ordering the world, there will be more human sympathy in the system. That is one of the roles we need to play on the global stage. Bring up a black man, give him a role to play on the international stage, and he will do well. It is not a choice for me to come and live here and build this house. This is not my village, I have a house in the village, but look at what I have here. It is not a choice but compulsion, we the Igbos have an ancient principle that where you live, you help to develop. You diversify, so, that principles, whether we are in Russia or China it do not matter and that is why we are developing Nigeria massively. We are not asking to be president for the length of time that the Hausa/Fulani have ruled Nigeria, we are just asking to be President for just eight years, and if we can set the stage right and make sure that there is a fair playing ground and the rules are common, we can abandon the place and leave it for other people to do their politics and we go back to our business. So, I have told you why we are clamouring for the presidency in 2023.
Do you then agree with Prof Ango Abdullahi’s proposition that the Igbo have been unable to get the presidency because they insult others rather than build the bridge of friendship?
Let me confess to you that Ango Abdullahi is my friend. We were together in Abuja during the constitutional conference. I don’t understand him these days, but he has the right to his opinion. His explanation is different from what I told you. What I said earlier was that successful Igbo people make mouths. What Ango Abdullahi is saying is that people who are asking for President are talking nastily to other Nigerians. Let me say this with my mouth, that we the Igbo people do not prostrate or kneel to anybody. But in this issue of the presidency, in this issue of one Nigeria, in this issue of making the black man respected and proud and dignified, I am prepared to kneel to get Igbo president. I am prepared to kneel to other Nigerians for us to get this chance of an Igbo man becoming President of Nigeria.
Are you aspiring to contest the 2023 presidential election to actualise the ambition of the Igbo to produce the next President of Nigeria?
The Yoruba youth came here, the northern youth came here, and the Igbo youth in the South-East gave me honours. The Yoruba youth in particular, and the northern youths said, if you are the one aspiring to lead the country as President, there will be no problem and no contest. Unless the person who is prepared to contest against me does not know my pedigree. When they were talking to me I was 83 years, now I am going to be 84 and I told them that by 2023, I will be 85 years. I may be strong, I can even run or even play soccer, but do you know that as I talk to you now, I may forget you. The greatest problem of age is memory and you need a sharp mind, and alertness to run the affairs of your life. What about the affairs of a nation? So, under my age, I cannot even think about it. But I will be available to help anybody young and prepared to contest.
It’s been in the news that the ruling All Progressives Congress (APC) is making an overture to former President Goodluck Jonathan to contest the 2023 elections after de-marketing him and grabbing power from him in 2015. What do you make of such overture?
I can tell you, the people we are dealing with think that they are by far, more intelligent than us, the Fulani especially. How can you expect Goodluck Jonathan to listen to that kind of thing? If he is listening to them at all, he is showing them supervisor intelligence. Instead of saying no, I don’t want to listen to you. Instead of using a bad mouth, he is pretending to be listening. But the Jonathan I know, is of superior intelligence and I don’t expect him to be more than a joke with them. I don’t think I will say more about this because our leader, Edwin Clerk had made it clear to him not to contemplate such.
Critics of this administration said that the country has exhibited all the characteristics of a failed state. Will you, with all sense of responsibility, say Nigeria has failed?
Well, many, many years ago, I was saying that Nigeria was taking giant steps backward and developing, under the incumbent administration. Nigeria is not just a failed state, Nigeria has failed comprehensively. Do, you know, a traditional ruler from Katsina came to me here and we were discussing Nigeria situation and he told me that he has lost 31 communities that use to be under him. To whom did he lose them? To the bandits. He told me that bandits are collecting taxes from the people. There are some other stories he told me that I would not like to put in the press because people will vomit and die.
What can we point to under this administration and say, this is a successful situation? Is it the exchange rate? Today it is about N580 to $1. Security is now worse. The bandits, the Almagiris, the Talakawas, who were not trained to fend for themselves have discovered that they can kidnap one big man and become a millionaire overnight. And that is what is going on now. With the leadership from my side of the country, there will be no Talakawas, there will be no Almagiris, and people will be proud to feed their families and not move from place to place begging for support.
The military, in a statement, said that it overran the notorious Sambisa forest, which is the major enclave of terrorists in the North-East. What is your candid assessment of the Nigerian military, especially as it concerns the fight against terrorism?
They have not done well. They are not even fighting the terrorists. I don’t know if it is the politicians who are making them not fight Boko Haram and all that. I was listening to a television commentary today that 12 local government areas in Niger State have been taken by bandits. My friend in Anambra, a traditional ruler has moved out of his palace because the community is no longer safe for anybody. So, there is the failure of the economy, comprehensively, and a failure of security, comprehensively too.
You see, the problem with Nigeria is that those who don’t know are leading those who know, and they are not allowing those who know to have their way. I want to use the issue of subsidy for petroleum products as an example. It is more than twenty years, I proposed what to do with our petroleum products. Let me give you just one idea, assuming we cannot produce refined products, we can go and have a deal with some refineries. We give them our crude oil to refine for us and pay them for refining it but with no margin. We come back home and decide what price we want to put on the refined product. Today, the crude oil price is going up and we are losing as a producer of crude oil because as crude oil price goes up, since we depend on a hundred per cent on imported refined products, we have to pay the higher price with the margin. So, during that time the World Bank said that part of Nigeria was growing faster than the rest of the world, we were in the central planning office of Nigeria. I, Olu Falae, John Odigie-Oyegun, and many others. We were determined to take Nigeria to where it belongs. The military took over and ruined Nigeria. The military that took over in 1966, ruined Nigeria. First of all, they killed the structure that made it possible for us to grow faster than the rest of the world. Centralised many things, our economic policies were negative, our ability was no use, it was just who do you know.
If you are asked to rate President Muhammadu Buhari’s administration, on a scale of 1-100, particularly as it concerns his three cardinal campaign promises of security, economy, and anti-corruption. What will be your rating?
The word comprehensive means left-right, he failed, back, he failed, centre, he failed. It means total and complete failure. So, the failure is comprehensive, I asked you earlier to point out one positive thing about this administration. We thank God for sustaining us, and some people who don’t understand me will think I am too much of one in Nigeria. I am one of Nigeria because it favours my people. God created us and made us entrepreneurs, we want large space. That is why when you go to Russia, you see us, you go to China, you see us, and you go anywhere you see us. And that is why we are everywhere in Nigeria.
The second Niger Bridge is said to be 90 per cent complete, is that not a big plus for the Buhari-led administration?
I don’t know. I passed through the old Niger Bridge, and from there I looked at the second Niger Bridge and I don’t find the progress as I am told and now I must tell you the greatest loser is the airport in Asaba. Because, now that an airport has been opened in Anambra, you will find only very few people who will choose Asaba instead of Anambra. Not because of anything else, but because of the bridge. Some days, you have to spend five hours on the bridge, not because of the bridge alone but because of indiscipline. I don’t know if I was to find somewhere I will like to praise before condemning.
The IPOB sit-at-home order in the South East is gradually killing the economy of the region. Are you concerned about this recklessness in the name of agitation?
I am very, very concerned and must tell you the truth. The sit-at-home order would have ended on the first Monday because when I heard the order, I called Ifeanyi, lawyer to Nnamdi Kanu, and said, what are you up to? What does this thing mean? You mean that people are killing us and we want to join them to kill ourselves.
What will those people who want to kill us do? They will be laughing that we have joined in killing ourselves. I asked him to tell me any benefits from this sit-at-home order, just one, and I will hand it off. The second week, I was visiting home and thought everything was over because as I understood from the lawyer, Nnamdi Kanu gave an order that they should stand down the order. But I went home to Igbo Ukwu and on Monday I was to go back to Asaba airport, of course, I went but I came out in Nneobi and find people playing soccer on the road. The road was so quiet that they were conformable playing soccer.
Then, all the way to Onitsha was virtually no traffic. I decided to have a press conference to beg our people to understand ourselves. Many people think that what they think is the best, is the only way, no. Think it round, and that is where age and education come in, it is not just what you think because of emotional commitment. I am very sorry for us, we are losing billions of naira every Monday we stay at home and there is no makeup for that loss. I don’t know how to deal with it except to appeal to a new person like Prof. Soludo to put his competence to deal with security and such matters.
You were part of the delegation of Igbo elder statesmen that went to appeal to President Buhari to release Nnamdi Kanu and nothing has come out of such high powered visit. Do you feel insulted by the President?
I don’t feel insulted by the President. We went, he listened to us very well, and when we asked those who know him well, they said he took us very seriously and his promise to look into it was serious. I told the President myself that I was going to submit a paper to him, what was I supposed to write a paper about? It was to write to him and say that the problem is not Igbo alone. Yoruba, Middle Belt, South-South, and every other group are complaining. So, let us have a small conference to look at how to structure Nigeria and make it clear that restructuring Nigeria does not mean resources control. It does not mean that oil money will not go to the north because he wouldn’t understand that.
When you find people opposing restructuring, they are not opposing success, because restructuring brings success but they are opposing what they think is resource control that will come with restructuring. This is a political situation, we can take the issue of resources control apart, and make sure that for the next ten years people will continue to share oil money if it is still there. I don’t know what to say again, we are suffering because the government does not understand. I heard a rumour that Kanu was going to be released along with Igboho, and I was very happy. Eventually, I heard about Igboho’s release, but Kanu was not released. The president must be considered, the best time to do it. Because, when you look at Nnamdi Kanu’s case, you find that justice is not done.
You are saying that somebody is a rebel, he is a terrorist because he said he wanted freedom for his people. That cannot be right. You declared him a terrorist but those who are fighting you in the North-East and west, you forgive some of them and bring them into the army. Nigeria is not doing well.
The inauguration of Prof. Chukwuma Soludo as Governor of Anambra State was marred by a fight between the widow of the late Igbo leader Chief Odumegwu Ojukwu and Mrs. Obiano, were you bothered by such a show of shame?
I was bothered enough that I suggested to people around me that I would like to intervene immediately and bring an understanding, peace, and apologies. But some people said I should hold on. As you saw in the trending video thereafter, somebody caused it and somebody reacted to the cause, the reason to reconcile them that is all.
Former governor of Anambra State, Willie Obiano, was arrested by EFCC in Lagos on his way out of the country the same day he left office. Shortly after his arrest a video of his ill-treatment by EFCC operatives generated outrage. How did you feel as a former governor seeing such a thing?
I felt bad, that EFCC allowed people to be taking pictures of a former governor drinking water. There was no reason to ridicule him. If we compare him to some other people, from the north especially, we will find that he is so clean. Some people just carry away government money without feeling anything about it. Our brother who made mistakes in the North does so. We will not support the stealing of government money. When Nigeria’s government structure was good, nobody was able to steal government money. We build a house for Michael Okpara after he came back.
We build a house for Chief Ojukwu when he came back. He did not have a bank account rolling with stolen government money. We don’t like it if Obiano stole our money but we don’t also like Obiano to be insulted, ridiculed, and exposed like that without justice. Prove your case and let him take the punishment that comes with it. But don’t make Anambra man look like he is the only thief in Nigeria.